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End Fighter Strikes When There is CAP
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USS Archerfish
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PostPosted: Fri 14 Apr - 04:53 (2017)    Post subject: End Fighter Strikes When There is CAP Reply with quote

Bladerunner


I feel that if an air strikes that has fighter escorts, those escorts should not be allowed to participate in a ground strike if there is a enemy CAP.  As it is now, fighters that are participating in a ground strike can engage a CAP and then participate in a ground attack. This is unrealistic to me.  Normally in such a situation, fighters are forced to jettisons bombs in order to engage enemy CAPs. Can you correct this deficiency?


Thanks 


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PostPosted: Fri 14 Apr - 04:53 (2017)    Post subject: Publicité

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currymutton
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PostPosted: Mon 24 Apr - 04:00 (2017)    Post subject: End Fighter Strikes When There is CAP Reply with quote

I concurr that but there is no way to know if there is any fighter which may have slipped through the CAP net.

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Bladerunner
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PostPosted: Wed 26 Apr - 13:09 (2017)    Post subject: End Fighter Strikes When There is CAP Reply with quote

Little rectification.


Fighter bombers do not engage CAP but tries to bombs the target
Escort fighters engage the CAP and then strafe the airfield which may unrealistic or not


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USS Archerfish
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PostPosted: Sat 29 Apr - 02:30 (2017)    Post subject: End Fighter Strikes When There is CAP Reply with quote

The problem is you don't know which fighters are bombing or providing escort protection.  


From my understanding though.  If a fighter is on a bombing run encounters enemy fighter caps, they generally jettison their bombs and engage the fighters. Generally though if an attacking force is bombing a target known to have fighter protection, then they are sent as escorts and not bombers.  But if fighters are dedicated to a bombing mission then they should be treated as having no fighter protection and suffer greater losses. But this would require the game to let players to choose if the fighters are going on a bombing run or as an escort.  This would also significantly affect a fighters range.






As it is right now, I feel the fighters land attack ability is creating an imbalance in the attackers favor when attacking airfield.  


Here is what I suggest is a better balance. 


Option 1 -  If an attacking force with fighters encounters an enemy CAP, the fighters may not participate in a ground strike. This is a simple option.


Option 2 - If the attacking force has more fighters than the defending CAP, excess fighters may strafe (not bomb) an airfield. (Strafing causes damage only to aircraft and not the airfield)


Option 3 - If a fighter is to go on a bombing mission, this must be selected before launching.  If they engage enemy fighters bombs are jettisoned to engage CAP. (I don't know how much programming is involved in this.  


Anyway, for now I prefer option 2. 


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Bladerunner
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PostPosted: Sat 29 Apr - 07:35 (2017)    Post subject: End Fighter Strikes When There is CAP Reply with quote

Option 3: 
You may already choose between escort or bomb when sending a fighter !
Jettison or not jettison that is the question. When you have a good escort, you rely on it. In ground strikes against Rabaul'or by n the Solomon, Beaufighters and P-39 were used as bombers and escorted by P-38 or P-40
May be a setting or a rule similar to Option 2


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k9mike
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PostPosted: Sat 29 Apr - 20:37 (2017)    Post subject: End Fighter Strikes When There is CAP Reply with quote

Cyril,
 Can you please show or provide some guidance on how the fighters are selected for fighters/bombers? Thanks


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Bladerunner
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PostPosted: Sun 30 Apr - 08:58 (2017)    Post subject: End Fighter Strikes When There is CAP Reply with quote

Sure
when you fly over the strike areas, you have the choice between FUEL or BOMBS (if this kind of fighters may carry enough of them to be significant)




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k9mike
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PostPosted: Sun 30 Apr - 18:49 (2017)    Post subject: End Fighter Strikes When There is CAP Reply with quote

Ok, so when your dragging over that area....you just carefully drop them on the desired portion showing...correct?

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USS Archerfish
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PostPosted: Sun 30 Apr - 21:18 (2017)    Post subject: End Fighter Strikes When There is CAP Reply with quote

I didn't realize that was a selection choice. I thought it was just information. 


Maybe in between the two selections add the following. "<- select mission ->". (Stack the word select on top do mission to save space.) It will make it more obvious that you are suppose to choose. 


Also, change "Fuel Tanks" to "Escort". I think this will also make it clearer that you are choosing between Escort or Bombing. In fact I recommend changing this wording in the "Air Units" description under "Rule Summery" as well. 


Out of curiosity, why does CAP have a shorter range than Escorts/Fuel Tanks.  Don't CAPs use fuel tanks too?


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currymutton
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PostPosted: Tue 2 May - 02:18 (2017)    Post subject: End Fighter Strikes When There is CAP Reply with quote

I think "fuel tank"  is fine, because there is another type of mission called "transfer"  or "ferry" of which you just send planes from one friendly location to another, aka "fly the friendly sky" 

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Bladerunner
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PostPosted: Tue 2 May - 18:26 (2017)    Post subject: End Fighter Strikes When There is CAP Reply with quote

may be the best word would be "Drop tank"

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USS Archerfish
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PostPosted: Thu 4 May - 03:06 (2017)    Post subject: End Fighter Strikes When There is CAP Reply with quote

Okay

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Bladerunner
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PostPosted: Thu 4 May - 20:46 (2017)    Post subject: End Fighter Strikes When There is CAP Reply with quote

On the other hand, bombers may carry fuel instead of a full bomb payload but nothing is droppable

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USS Archerfish
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PostPosted: Thu 4 May - 22:26 (2017)    Post subject: End Fighter Strikes When There is CAP Reply with quote

Bladerunner wrote:
On the other hand, bombers may carry fuel instead of a full bomb payload but nothing is droppable




Yes true, but this doesn't seem to come in play for this game with a few exceptions. Bomber only bomb or drop torpedos and the game automatically adjust fuel for the type of payload.  But when it comes to adding fighters and fighter bombers to the strike box, players (especially new players) need clearer indicators notifying them if they are assigning their fighters to Escort or Bombing missions. 


When I first started playing.  I didn't realize when I added fighters to the strike box, that I was suppose to choose which mission I wanted them to fly.  I saw the pop-up but I thought it was an information display. I initially didn't realized that if I dragged my fighter over one of the boxes that I was choosing a mission. I was just dragging fighters to the strike box. 


This is why I recommend two things for the strike box.  
1.  Have this, <- select -> put in between the Fuel Tanks and Bombing. This would help make it clearer that the player that the player is suppose to choose which mission they want the fighter to fly
2.  Change Fule Tanks to Escort.  The reason I suggested this wording earlier is because when you add a fighter to the Strike/Transfer box, the player needs to choose what mission they want the fighter to fly, Escort or Bombing.  This makes things clearer to the player.  The word Fule Tanks or Drop Tanks are not needed because the game automatically adjust fuel and range for the mission.  Technically, the word Fule Tank or Drop Tank can mean extra Fule for transfer, escort and even bombing mission for fighters via a smaller payload but the last one is beyond the scope of this game. 


When I look at things I try to look at it from the perspective of new player.  Because the quicker they understand how to play, the more often they will play it. In one way, they game is relatively easy to play ONCE you understand the mechanics of the game.  But some of it is not obvious to new players. There is a definite learning curve. This is usually do to how information is displayed and the ease or difficulty in finding it and in some cases the lack of it. 


Furthermore, there appears to be no detailed information in the rules on how to properly use the Strike/Transfer Box or the different effects of using a single wave (Alpha Strike) vs multiple waves.  Understanding these two elements is crucial to playing an effective game.   


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currymutton
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PostPosted: Tue 9 May - 10:03 (2017)    Post subject: End Fighter Strikes When There is CAP Reply with quote

You can call me odd, but adding fighter escort to a strike group is as natural as breathing to me.

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PostPosted: Today at 16:35 (2017)    Post subject: End Fighter Strikes When There is CAP

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