Carrier Battles for Guadalcanal Forum Index

Carrier Battles for Guadalcanal


 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

Bombers

 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Carrier Battles for Guadalcanal Forum Index -> Topics -> New Features
Previous topic :: Next topic  
Author Message
USS Archerfish
Beta-testing

Offline

Joined: 16 Mar 2017
Posts: 457

PostPosted: Thu 2 Nov - 09:20 (2017)    Post subject: Bombers Reply with quote

I've been doing some research on bombers on their range and payload.

In the game, one hex represents 30 miles.  But it seems that with some bombers the game is not representing their true range.


One example is the B-17 bomber.  Research shows it has an average Bombing range 2,000 miles with a bomb load of 5~6,000 lb. This would represent a range of 66 hexes. This would coincide with historical report of B-17 bombing Lae and Guadalcanal from Australia. But the game gives the B-17 a range of 48 hexes. However, by giving it a longer range I see how it can mess with the balance of the game, especially with search. These super long range search I think would create an imbalance. So I have a proposal.


So research shows that the B-17 can do a 2,000 mile round trip bombing run, 66 hexes. So allow the game to let bombers do extreme long range bombing but with a lesser pay load.  A normal bombing range would be 48 hexes and an extreme would be 66.


For searches keep the current ranges but you could add a line search or maybe a 30 or 15 degree search that would go out to 33 hexes instead of 24 hexes. 


Thoughts anyone.


By the way BR, how did you come up with the current range for bombers?


Back to top
Publicité






PostPosted: Thu 2 Nov - 09:20 (2017)    Post subject: Publicité

PublicitéSupprimer les publicités ?
Back to top
larsenjp
Beta-testing

Offline

Joined: 19 Aug 2017
Posts: 176

PostPosted: Thu 2 Nov - 17:58 (2017)    Post subject: Bombers Reply with quote

As for B17-E, i found various figures.
However, with payload of 4000 lbs of bombs (plus ammunitions), the accepted range seems to be around 2000 miles, 2200 miles being the extreme possible range most probably with reduced payload.

I found that, as early as February 1942, B17s from 19th BG used to take off from Australia, Garbutt field in Townsville, to bomb Rabaul. The distance was 1100 miles; so they made a stop at PM to refuel and made their way back to Australia.
It means that very early in 1942, PM could refuel B17s; but they were no missions flown from here most probably since there was no enough facilities and especially bombs.

I think that common safe combat range should be around 1800 miles.
For transfer, without bombs and ammunition, the maximum range seems to be 3000 maybe 3200 miles...
Therefore, for reconnaissance duties, the range should be within 1800 and 3000 miles.

So it means that combat range should be around 60 hexes (possibly up to 66-70 hexes maximum), transfer range up to 100 hexes and recon range in between (80 hexes?)
Actually, 48 hexes seems really too small.

I do not agree in reducing B17s range just for balancing purpose. All in all, the Japanese have very valuable planes with average ranges much larger than the US ones: G3M, G4M, A6M and so on (maybe to be checked). Furthermore, if you choose to send some planes in a very long range bomb or recon mission, you do not have them at hand for a very long time; you have to wait for them to get back... So, as always, you have pros and cons.

Another thing we may have a look at is speed (i mean cruise speed, not combat speed).
To date, all the planes are supposed to have the same speed i.e. 180 miles/hour ; for B17s i think it is very acceptable (actually cruise speed should have been slightly superior maybe 190-200 miles/hour) but some planes were slowler.
However, i do not really see how to implement this easily.


Back to top
USS Archerfish
Beta-testing

Offline

Joined: 16 Mar 2017
Posts: 457

PostPosted: Thu 2 Nov - 19:29 (2017)    Post subject: Bombers Reply with quote

Larsen, most of the information I found shows the B-17 having a 2,000 mile bombing range but the bomb load varied.  At the 2,000 mile range the lowest was 4,800 lb. the highest was 6,000 lb.  I posted this info because it came from the Boeing web site. It's a bit difficult to pin the exact range and payload because there were a lot a variables. But if you reduce the B-17 to 60 it puts Lea and Guadalcanal just out of range. That's why I suggested a two bomb load rating.  I'm sure for the B-17 to hit Lae and Guadalcanal they had to be carrying a lighter payload. Probably no more than 4,000 lb. 

Back to top
larsenjp
Beta-testing

Offline

Joined: 19 Aug 2017
Posts: 176

PostPosted: Thu 2 Nov - 19:47 (2017)    Post subject: Bombers Reply with quote

Archerfish, yes i fully agree with you.
Personally i found rather 2200 miles and 4000 lbs; that gives 72 hexes.
Anyway, Lae and Rabaul were within range from Australia; the same for Guadalcanal. But PM was used as a relay for refueling (and then Henderson field).

I also had a look at Boeing website but i found only data about the G version which is not the one we are interested in.


Back to top
Bladerunner
Administrateur

Offline

Joined: 25 Jan 2016
Posts: 802
Localisation: France

PostPosted: Fri 3 Nov - 19:23 (2017)    Post subject: Bombers Reply with quote

Yes very difficult to get info
I tried to use the range from real stories


Guadalcanal was bombed from Santo which is compatible with the B-17 endurance
From Australia you may bomb today Lae with B-17


Back to top
larsenjp
Beta-testing

Offline

Joined: 19 Aug 2017
Posts: 176

PostPosted: Fri 3 Nov - 19:27 (2017)    Post subject: Bombers Reply with quote

Bladerunner wrote:
Yes very difficult to get info
I tried to use the range from real stories


Guadalcanal was bombed from Santo which is compatible with the B-17 endurance
From Australia you may bomb today Lae with B-17


Yes but actually they are documented missions against Rabaul from Australia and against Guadalcanal (Tulagi) from Australia/PM.


Back to top
Bladerunner
Administrateur

Offline

Joined: 25 Jan 2016
Posts: 802
Localisation: France

PostPosted: Sat 4 Nov - 18:17 (2017)    Post subject: Bombers Reply with quote

From PM not pb. 
From Australia staging at PM, no pb
From Australia to Tulagi, this means a lot of hexes. Do you have an example with the bomb workload ?


Back to top
larsenjp
Beta-testing

Offline

Joined: 19 Aug 2017
Posts: 176

PostPosted: Sat 4 Nov - 21:30 (2017)    Post subject: Bombers Reply with quote

Well i had a deeper look at my sources and i found no evidence of such missions (bombing Guadalcanal from Australia).

Actually, the bombing operations (and searches) against Guadalcanal-Tulagi area seemed to be performed only by planes of 11th BG based in Espiritu Santo (and New Caledonia).

As for the B17s of 19th BG based in Australia (actually Townswille) they contributed by attacking Lae, Rabaul and Buna and by performing searches up to Bougainville area; generally, they stopped at PM either in the forward path or in the return path (but it seems that generally they were departing from Australia with their bombs, at least in the beginning).
I found some figures about a raid against Buna with four B17s dropping fourteen 300lbs bombs, that is two planes with two bombs and two with three bombs...

Sorry for this blunder... Wink

BTW I also found some evidence about B26s of 22nd BG raiding Rabaul, especially on their very first combat mission on April 6th 1942: 10 planes departed from Townsville on the 5th (one aborted and went back), each with four bombs of 500lbs, stopped in PM and six of them finally bombed the target on the 6th (one burst a tire on landing at PM and two aborted the raid because of poor weather), with one forced to ditch after AA damage. They made others raids against Rabaul in the following days.


Back to top
Bladerunner
Administrateur

Offline

Joined: 25 Jan 2016
Posts: 802
Localisation: France

PostPosted: Sun 5 Nov - 18:39 (2017)    Post subject: Bombers Reply with quote

I think U came across such reports for the B-26
That is why they have an endurance of 32, enough for a PM-Rabaul-PM


Back to top
Contenu Sponsorisé






PostPosted: Today at 04:40 (2017)    Post subject: Bombers

Back to top
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Carrier Battles for Guadalcanal Forum Index -> Topics -> New Features All times are GMT + 1 Hour
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  

Index | Administration Panel | Create own nforum | Free support forum | Free forums directory | Report a violation | Conditions générales d'utilisation
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group