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2-players game
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Bladerunner
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PostPosted: Tue 25 Oct - 21:12 (2016)    Post subject: 2-players game Reply with quote

Interesting discussion with Currymulton about the pace of the 2P-game


I can see the concern.
Active player may change if they know they can play against real human


Time and $ are major concern I can tell

Slowliness is not a problem. I played Combat Mission 1 series for a long time and many other games which span for days to complete (a game of Ascension lasts for 28 days max; Twillight Struggle 45 day)  Take time take turn seems to be a norm. One way to do this is like Patchwork and Galaxy Trucker, each player has 24 hours to complete his/her turn.
Bladerunner wrote:
To be honest, I am hesitating


2P game
- more demands
- not enough active players to find opponents
- more challenging
- will take more time to develop
- the game pace will be quite slower as you will need to wait for the opponent to play its phase



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PostPosted: Tue 25 Oct - 21:12 (2016)    Post subject: Publicité

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currymutton
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PostPosted: Thu 27 Oct - 05:23 (2016)    Post subject: 2-players game Reply with quote

First off, this is something I think many have been waiting for.


Apart from the back end logistics things to consider, I am considering how the play flow would be.


It is normal to assume hitting the forward button to submit the turn.


After player one does this, the same turn is sent to the player two for making moves


When player one view the turn results and pass on to player two to view the turn and then make moves for the next turn; pass on to player one for commands.


Player two views first this time and pass onto player one and so on. 


If there is combat involved during the turn. Instead of viewing the plotted moves, the attacking side will then be given the combat allocation screen after both sides have inputted the moves, then both sides take turn to view the combat results. Then move on the next battle, so on and so forth. After all the battles are resolved, then the player view the plotted moves. 


It is one of the ways it gets done but as you can see, there are quite a few problems with this scheme:


First, both players have to sit through all the boring time when many scenarios are not even designed to see any real action in the first 4 "hours" of play.  


Second: this scheme makes "fast forwarding" impossible


Third: although giving out instructions during battle  is more or less the same, but it takes more time to resolve it. Honestly this is kinda unavoidable. 


My $0.02


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Bladerunner
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PostPosted: Tue 1 Nov - 22:06 (2016)    Post subject: 2-players game Reply with quote

I need to make a nice sequence diagram of a 2P turn


However with what I have in mind, I can answer to your concerns


1. yes the pace of the game is quite slow at the start of each scenario. and even at the end 
Using fast forward is a MUST HAVE
So is the option to forfeit a game when obviously lost


2. Fast forward is of cours possible. If player A is performing its move, then it hands over to B. But if B has opted for a fast forward, then the sequence result to player A who can proceed th enex moves, etc.. until reaching end of fast forward by elapsed time, battle, etc..
The player A n this case will notice that player B has allowed a fast forward and may play around it in a hope to catch B off guard. This is an unavoidable drawback 


3. Battles should be resolved without interactions
This implies to the system assigning targets automatically. The players will have the possibility to set in advance some combat scheme for their airstrikes and forces in order to guide the system
 


My biggest concern on my side is the time needed to complet one scenario
If is it played until the third day, there 48 turns x 4 = 192 phases to play which means a lot to wait as opponents are not always connected and playing


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currymutton
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PostPosted: Wed 2 Nov - 04:11 (2016)    Post subject: 2-players game Reply with quote

Bladerunner wrote:
I need to make a nice sequence diagram of a 2P turn


However with what I have in mind, I can answer to your concerns


1. yes the pace of the game is quite slow at the start of each scenario. and even at the end 
Using fast forward is a MUST HAVE
So is the option to forfeit a game when obviously lost


2. Fast forward is of cours possible. If player A is performing its move, then it hands over to B. But if B has opted for a fast forward, then the sequence result to player A who can proceed th enex moves, etc.. until reaching end of fast forward by elapsed time, battle, etc..
The player A n this case will notice that player B has allowed a fast forward and may play around it in a hope to catch B off guard. This is an unavoidable drawback 


3. Battles should be resolved without interactions
This implies to the system assigning targets automatically. The players will have the possibility to set in advance some combat scheme for their airstrikes and forces in order to guide the system
 


My biggest concern on my side is the time needed to complet one scenario
If is it played until the third day, there 48 turns x 4 = 192 phases to play which means a lot to wait as opponents are not always connected and playing


Diagram? I can help Very Happy

Thanks

1. Fast forward, okay, I am listening

2. Seem fine, but I think both sides should have the consenses before having "fast forward" and the game needs a better notificaiton system so that the game can pause without barring either side from obtaining vital information (sightings of vital targets/threats, landing of air assets, etc), or things either player need to input. It could be tricky

3. Autotargeting seems fine, but given how the AI treats my ships, I have confidence there would be not that many complaints about this

4. Time to complete: frankly, I do not really keep track of my games, I have 30+ Asencsion games currently on-going and 7 for Twillight Struggle -- I just set up the longest game time possible. The clock works like chess clock. It keeps counting down and when you play your turn, it pauses for both sides and after I make my moves, the clock of the other side resumes counting down...I am totally cool about the duration thing


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Bladerunner
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PostPosted: Mon 14 Nov - 23:41 (2016)    Post subject: 2-players game Reply with quote

So for the sequence


1a - Player A load the game state from the cloud
1b - Player A moves
1c - Battles are resolved in the background and saved in the cloud
1d - Player A browse the battles


If fast forward has been activated by player B, then player A make plays another phase on its iPad


Otherwise
- Player B is notified that he may play now
- Player A may freely browse the game without updating anything


2a - Player B load the game state from the cloud
2b - Player B browse the battles save din the cloud
2c - Player B moves, etc...


Note that fast forward is not necessarily activated by both players at the same time but doing do may faster the game at the beginning








 
  


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currymutton
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PostPosted: Tue 22 Nov - 04:35 (2016)    Post subject: 2-players game Reply with quote

Any info on ETA?

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Bladerunner
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PostPosted: Tue 22 Nov - 08:32 (2016)    Post subject: 2-players game Reply with quote

Difficult to say now, probably 6 months
I need first to experiment to check feasibility and performance
I think I will introduce it step by step in the BETA version starting from 1.7


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currymutton
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PostPosted: Tue 22 Nov - 10:01 (2016)    Post subject: 2-players game Reply with quote

...and I can see...

Hehe nevermind...


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Mortarman96
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PostPosted: Thu 26 Jan - 06:40 (2017)    Post subject: 2-players game Reply with quote

Awesome, I don't think the pace for 2v2 game will play a factor since time should be based on the players.
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currymutton
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PostPosted: Thu 23 Mar - 07:36 (2017)    Post subject: 2-players game Reply with quote

Just to let you guys salivate I am having a (very proto) 2 player game against you-know-who and it is fun already, even I lose the first engagement.

I just come up with an idea: "Random options for 2-player game", player can setup a game with unknown number of options turned on (could be zero) and both sides get notified when the game starts. The game setup side must have the option purchased.

I am aware that certain option is useless in 2-player game (e.g. "No Surprise" in Midway), but I think it can be fun and provide some variations


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Bladerunner
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PostPosted: Thu 23 Mar - 08:22 (2017)    Post subject: 2-players game Reply with quote

Exactly, this should happen and leave the room for some handicap-play (a bit like go game)

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PostPosted: Today at 16:22 (2017)    Post subject: 2-players game

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