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[Done] Improvement for surface actions v1.6

 
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Bladerunner
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PostPosted: Tue 1 Nov - 21:48 (2016)    Post subject: [Done] Improvement for surface actions v1.6 Reply with quote

What do ou think of this ?


Torpedoes
They are a bit too destructive. The night bonus will decrease by 10%


Hits
-   5% chance to hit for DD against CL, CL vs CA and CA vs BB

- 10% chance to hit for DD against CA, CL vs BB
- 15% chance to hit for DD against BB
- 10% if either sides is evading (long-range fighting)


Today, a ship firing on only one random target
Tomorrow, each ship gun factor will aim at one random target. Hence a CA with 8 factors could spread its fire on 1 to 8 ships. This will result in larger casualties from BB


Victory
It is better to take into account the casualties rather than the number of hits scored on enemy ships
The side which sinks or render inoperative the most enemy ships is the winner. Defender wins ties
An inoperative ships is either burning or crippled


US choices
The US might get the possibility to evade battle or to fight at longer range and retreat after the first round

The choice of targets BB/CA - Mixed - CL/DD should be removed. Mixed is the standard. This will be better for the 2-players game and the surface battle victory as you cannot target only vulnerable ships to score the most casualties 


AA guns
May be a correlation between AA and turrets losses for DD with their dual-purpose 5'' guns

A bomb or shell hits will destroy more AA guns on a small ships than on a bigger ship as the impact area is proportionally smaller compared to the length of the ship
Bigger ships should not lose their gun factor so fast as they can still fight with secondary AA batteries


Last edited by Bladerunner on Thu 29 Dec - 22:38 (2016); edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Tue 1 Nov - 21:48 (2016)    Post subject: Publicité

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moet


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PostPosted: Wed 2 Nov - 02:46 (2016)    Post subject: [Done] Improvement for surface actions v1.6 Reply with quote

I like it, specially the torpedoes and battle victory improvements.


Are those new rules already implemented in the beta version?


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currymutton
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PostPosted: Wed 2 Nov - 03:59 (2016)    Post subject: [Done] Improvement for surface actions v1.6 Reply with quote

1. Torpedoes : 10% reduction seems fine (let's test it out!) but I think the chances of IJN surprises with torpedo is till a bit too high, especially when Allied ships in the battle had surface search radars ( they are primitive, I know)

2. Hit: good as it reflects the suprolrity of captial ships

3. Victory: seems more realistic this way, it always puzzled me when I sank more enemy ships and still lost

4. US Choices: how about removing that option altogether, the second round should always about getting the pirme meat from your target

5. AA Guns: i am not so sure about the gunnery reduction for capital ship; WWI-converted warships like Kongo-class had a lot of of secondary turrets along the hull-side. it gives them even more unfair advantage (war is unfiar, I know)


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Black6


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PostPosted: Thu 3 Nov - 04:02 (2016)    Post subject: [Done] Improvement for surface actions v1.6 Reply with quote

Quick question, why does the torpedoes always strike first? I always thought the guns would out range them?

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currymutton
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PostPosted: Thu 3 Nov - 04:15 (2016)    Post subject: [Done] Improvement for surface actions v1.6 Reply with quote

Black6 wrote:
Quick question, why does the torpedoes always strike first? I always thought the guns would out range them?





I recall a motto in air combat: You cannot fight what you cannot see


It holds true to surface battle too.


Torpedo salvo is surprise attack. History accounts show that many times, vessels from both sides were able to sneak up on another vessel, when the latter was busy firing on another ship. This usually happened in complete darkness and surface radar was not that advanced by then.


Also note, in early WW2, IJN was trained on night combat, but Allied was not. And her "Long Lance" torpedo was superior to Allied ones in terms of range and reliability. So, IJN was more likely to kill by creeping up on unsuspecting target and scored with torpedo.


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Bladerunner
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PostPosted: Thu 3 Nov - 08:18 (2016)    Post subject: [Done] Improvement for surface actions v1.6 Reply with quote

These improvements will be implemented in the 1.6 version


There is one thing I would like to add is the battle exhaustion with results of surface battles.
Ships formations get disrupted and need to retreat a while to reorganize before engaging again


No idea who to do so so far


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Bladerunner
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PostPosted: Thu 3 Nov - 08:44 (2016)    Post subject: [Done] Improvement for surface actions v1.6 Reply with quote

currymutton wrote:
4. US Choices: how about removing that option altogether, the second round should always about getting the pirme meat from your target






Indeed let's simplify the whole thing


We could have a single combat round including all ships
- ships will fire at a mix of surface combat ships and unfortunate CV/TRS
- the only option will may remain is the retreat before combat. This could be handled beforehand as a parameter of the task force. This way, there will be no interaction during the battle; just watch the movie !


Hence, you really need to dispatch strong surface forces ahead of your transports to actively protect them and you should ensure that your CV do not get caught in a surface battle


Last edited by Bladerunner on Thu 3 Nov - 23:13 (2016); edited 1 time in total
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currymutton
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PostPosted: Thu 3 Nov - 10:21 (2016)    Post subject: [Done] Improvement for surface actions v1.6 Reply with quote

Battle exhaustion suggestion:

After each surface engagement, with no retreat occurred, whether loss has incurred or not, the TFs participated are in the state of "regroup" (for how long? One hour? Two hours? Or variable by side, state of survivors, etc?). First, they will move away in random direction for one hex (make sure they do not land on the same hex again). Then they cannot move or perform any action allowed in normal situation, except air operations (which includes sea plane handling). I am not sure if unloading by TRS/Tokyo Express should be allowed also in this state, but I guess, in normal sense, I would pack up and flee.


Also for the TF in this state, penalties will be exerted when engaged in surface and anti-air combats. (Danger, Will Robinson, danger)




About US Choices:


I usually pack my convoy with a large number of ships as possible, which provides better chance on both air or sea attacks, it holds very true in SCI and EoR scenarios (Spoilers!). But now, this change makes it a little less favorable choice.


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Bladerunner
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PostPosted: Fri 4 Nov - 14:49 (2016)    Post subject: [Done] Improvement for surface actions v1.6 Reply with quote

You suggestion is good. I would improve it like this:
- depending on the battle results and it's own casualties, the TF gets 0 to 3 disorder markers
- at the end of each turn, remove one marker
- while the TF has disorder, it can't voluntary engage combat
- each disorder marker provides a penalty for surprise and gun fire and AA fire (less ships may fire)


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Bladerunner
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PostPosted: Fri 4 Nov - 19:23 (2016)    Post subject: [Done] Improvement for surface actions v1.6 Reply with quote

Another topic covering the engagement / retreat rule for US TF when attacked by Japanese
At each TF level, the player may define a ratio above which  the TF will fight, otherwise, it will attempt to retreat





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currymutton
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PostPosted: Mon 7 Nov - 15:09 (2016)    Post subject: [Done] Improvement for surface actions v1.6 Reply with quote

Why needed? I dunno if it could void "surprise" attack by IJN

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Bladerunner
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PostPosted: Mon 7 Nov - 19:43 (2016)    Post subject: [Done] Improvement for surface actions v1.6 Reply with quote

you never know anyway today.If your admirals are cowards, then just let them on the 2:1 or Never ration then :-)

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Bladerunner
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PostPosted: Tue 8 Nov - 19:12 (2016)    Post subject: [Done] Improvement for surface actions v1.6 Reply with quote

To determine the outcome of the battle
 


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Bladerunner
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PostPosted: Tue 8 Nov - 21:48 (2016)    Post subject: [Done] Improvement for surface actions v1.6 Reply with quote

Gun fire choice of target




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currymutton
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PostPosted: Wed 9 Nov - 01:33 (2016)    Post subject: [Done] Improvement for surface actions v1.6 Reply with quote

But without description texts in-battle, I have troubles understanding these....







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